Interesting stuff, Henry. I especially like that you honestly explore alternatives. A non-negligible part of your story parallels my story https://www.losingmyreligions.net/
A couple of quick notes:
1. Here in the US, the word "vegan" is the problem in terms of actually helping animals. (And the vast, vast majority of people who go vegan find it entirely possible to go back to eating animals, regardless of the moral inconsistency.) https://www.losingmyreligions.net/
2. I'm a huge fan of people like Lewis Bollard who do / fund work that help reduce cruelty to the growing billions of animals on factory farms. But that isn't the only option to promoting "Go Vegan!" https://www.onestepforanimals.org/about.html
The abolitionist analogy is the strongest part of this piece for me, and I think it deserves to be taken further. We wouldn’t say an abolitionist who kept slaves was doing their best simply because they also donated to the cause. Personal participation in harm doesn’t become neutral just because it’s offset elsewhere.
I think you’re right that effectiveness arguments are worth having, and that donations can do enormous good. But they don’t really resolve the question of what you’re doing with your own hands, your own money, your own plate. Veganism isn’t a lifestyle add-on. It’s just the minimum coherent position if you believe animals shouldn’t suffer for our convenience.
Funding opposition to any form of violence whilst also personally sustaining it isn’t neutral. It’s a contradiction worth sitting with.
The "Internal inconsistency feels bad" thing is something I've vaguely meant to write about (under the title "Moral self-signaling"). I can't be vegan and I care about recycling way more than I know is rational so basically it was going to be about that.
That's true but I'm thinking more of vegan replacements for things - e.g. Beyond Burgers are more expensive than beef, vegan snacks/chocolate more expensive than non-vegan, when travelling abroad you often need to seek out specific vegan restaurants and pay a premium. You can do veganism cheaply but most vegans don't subsist on rice and beans.
Interesting stuff, Henry. I especially like that you honestly explore alternatives. A non-negligible part of your story parallels my story https://www.losingmyreligions.net/
A couple of quick notes:
1. Here in the US, the word "vegan" is the problem in terms of actually helping animals. (And the vast, vast majority of people who go vegan find it entirely possible to go back to eating animals, regardless of the moral inconsistency.) https://www.losingmyreligions.net/
2. I'm a huge fan of people like Lewis Bollard who do / fund work that help reduce cruelty to the growing billions of animals on factory farms. But that isn't the only option to promoting "Go Vegan!" https://www.onestepforanimals.org/about.html
Keep up the great work!
This was a great read.
The abolitionist analogy is the strongest part of this piece for me, and I think it deserves to be taken further. We wouldn’t say an abolitionist who kept slaves was doing their best simply because they also donated to the cause. Personal participation in harm doesn’t become neutral just because it’s offset elsewhere.
I think you’re right that effectiveness arguments are worth having, and that donations can do enormous good. But they don’t really resolve the question of what you’re doing with your own hands, your own money, your own plate. Veganism isn’t a lifestyle add-on. It’s just the minimum coherent position if you believe animals shouldn’t suffer for our convenience.
Funding opposition to any form of violence whilst also personally sustaining it isn’t neutral. It’s a contradiction worth sitting with.
The "Internal inconsistency feels bad" thing is something I've vaguely meant to write about (under the title "Moral self-signaling"). I can't be vegan and I care about recycling way more than I know is rational so basically it was going to be about that.
I would have written a better comment if you hadn't walked up to me right at the moment I was writing it
very lucid
> you could take the extra money you’re spending on vegan food
What do you mean by "extra", aren't plant-based foods e.g. rice and beans usually *cheaper* than meat?
That's true but I'm thinking more of vegan replacements for things - e.g. Beyond Burgers are more expensive than beef, vegan snacks/chocolate more expensive than non-vegan, when travelling abroad you often need to seek out specific vegan restaurants and pay a premium. You can do veganism cheaply but most vegans don't subsist on rice and beans.